Swain:
You want to do what?
BEAST:
Basically, what we're trying to do... you've been following
this whole mess with the various imploding corporations--Tyco,
WorldCom, Rite-Aid...
Swain:
Rite-Aid, too?
BEAST:
Yeah. They inflate profits by $1.4 billion. Excuse me, $1.6
billion.
Swain:
Huh. I didn't know.
BEAST:
Anyway, given that most of the CEOs who are responsible
for all of this are probably never going to go to jail,
we were wondering if you could help us speculate as to what
the punitive options might have been for people like this
in, say, 15th-century Portugal, or England.
Swain:
Huh. That would probably have depended on who they were
back then.
BEAST:
Let's just say we threw someone like former WorldCom CEO
Bernard Ebbers back in time, suit and all, and he was to
lay something like what he did on everyone there.
Swain:
Are we talking England?
BEAST:
Sure, let's say England.
Swain:
Well, in 15th century England, you had a very busy time.
I mean, you're fighting the French, you've got the War of
the Roses...basically a nobleman, a gentleman, if he were
to go really off the deep end there, if he's caught, the
most serious thing he's probably going to face is a heavy
fine from the Crown. Remember, the important thing back
then is that the Crown needed money to fight all of these
wars.
BEAST:
Okay, right, but let's say the King just...let's just say
he really, really wanted to punish this person, for personal
reasons... what options would he have open to him then?
Swain:
Well, if he really wanted to get the guy, for personal reasons,
what he'd probably do is accuse him of heresy, and, you
know... well, he could be burned at the stake.
BEAST:
Was burning at the stake peculiar to England?
Swain:
No, it was pretty popular everywhere. Sort of a universal
thing.
BEAST:
If a person like Tyco CEO Dennis Kozlowski were to be accused
of heresy and burned at the stake, how would they do it?
Would they leave his tie on?
Swain:
I'm not sure. I'd have to look into that.
BEAST:
What about other techniques? There are some famous ones:
the Iron Maiden, the rack...
Swain:
Actually, the Iron Maiden was more of a modern device. It
wasn't really used in medieval times.
BEAST:
Interesting.
Swain:
Yeah, you'd think it was a medieval thing, but unfortunately,
it actually came later, in a more advanced period of history.
Actually, from where you're coming from, maybe that's fortunate,
not unfortunate.
BEAST:
Maybe. What about the rack?
Swain:
Well, you had the rack, you had thumbscrews, you had hanging
by the thumbs... but these were devices that were mainly
used to extract confessions. So if you're looking to get
them to confess, that would have been one way.
BEAST:
Okay.
Swain:
(brightening) But you know, now that I think about it, there
was one very popular method of punishment, one you don't
hear a lot about, but was nonetheless very widespread, and
that was crushing a person under a large stone.
BEAST:
A large stone?
Swain:
Yes. They actually used that one in Salem, it was a very
common thing for witch trials and things of that sort. I'm
sure it would work for CEOs, though.
BEAST:
So what did that entail? You take your CEO, push his lawyers
away, and put him on the ground, and you get four or five
guys to lift up a big rock and drop it on him?
Swain:
Oh, no, we're talking about a much bigger stone than that.
I'm saying you'd take your guy and chain him to a slab or
a table, and then the stone would be hoisted by chains using
a huge pulley, and you'd have a lot of men pulling it, and
then there would be people to guide it over the person,
and at the given moment, they'd just drop it.
BEAST:
And he'd die?
Swain:
Oh, God, yes. Totally.
BEAST:
Do you think a large stone would be an effective deterrent
to corporate malfeasance?
Swain:
(after a long pause, sadly) No, probably not. Greed is a
powerful motivator. Remember, you're only punishing the
people who get caught, and a characteristic of these people
is that they don't think they're going to get caught.
BEAST:
I see.
Swain:
Well, that's just an opinion.
BEAST:
Are you enjoying your summer vacation?
Swain:
Oh, yes, very much.
BEAST:
That's great. Well, thank you.
Swain:
Thank you.
